At 7:00pm ET/PT on Sunday night, Governor Romney and the Romney family will be featured on CBS' "60 Minutes with Mike Wallace." Make sure to watch Mitt on Sunday!
While some of the forward information about the interview seems to suggest that it will get distracted by tertiary questions at times, it should be good.
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"There is pretty outspoken derision, on the hustings, on the matter of Mitt Romney and his evolved stand on abortion. In Iowa, which Romney recently visited, a county chairman accosted a skeptic. What he said was that Romney's opposition to abortion was the result of a 'thoughtful moral process.' People on the other side, whether of Romney, or of abortion, are expressing their skepticism."
"What I have found most arresting is the refusal of so many in the pro-choice army to submit the question to 'thoughtful moral process,' as we have been told Mitt Romney did. One can choose to ignore the moral question, but one cannot easily decline to acknowledge that there is a moral question underlying the dispute."
"The movement to eliminate thought on abortion has failed. Failed, because there is an assertive human point at issue, which cannot be denied consideration, any more than the question of slavery could forever be denied consideration."
"Mitt Romney is hardly entitled to the Republican nomination just because he has confessed his doubts on the subject of abortion. But moral history is likely to bow its head to remark this sign of life of the moral conscience. "
I think Buckley is hitting upon something significant here, which is, much of the skepticism regarding Romney's reasoning for becoming more pro-life is largely rooted in an aversion to moral contemplation and discourse. Romney's "conversion" experience strike sincere to those who believe in coming to an understanding through learning and seeking to become better. I suspect that many of those who view it as pandering would prefer moral thought be driven from the res publica.
Significant moral problems are ignored in the guise of abstract notions of precedent and penumbras. What is lost is the limitation on human understanding that should inform even those who do not have faith in the sanctity of unborn life. A moral inquiry might proceed like this...
Hopefully, everyone can agree that it would be wrong to kill a person for no good reason. The best science can do in determining when a developing baby becomes a person is to say "I don't know." Consciousness is difficult to discern. In light of the fact that we do not know when a developing baby becomes a "person" it would be very reckless indeed to destroy that life for no good reason because it could be a person. As such, abortion on demand in the first trimester is very reckless. You could be killing a person. Society's basic function should be to protect people, especially those who cannot protect themselves. Hence, it would be fair for society to legislate restrictions on abortion pursuant to that duty.
When Mitt Romney says, he thinks state's should be able to legislate on the issue of abortion, he is essentially saying that state's should be allowed to have a moral discourse about life. Simply put, "The Roe v. Wade mentality has so cheapened the value of human life that rational people [see] human life as mere research material to be used, then destroyed."
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The Goodridge decision in MA: "I believe that the Court erred because it focused on adults and adult rights. They should have focused on the rights of children. The ideal setting for the raising of a child is a home with a loving mother and father."
Cloning: "What some see as a mere clump of cells is actually a human life. Human life has identity. Human life has the capacity to love and be loved. Human life has a profound dignity, undiminished by age or infirmity."
Judicial Temperment: "I think Chief Justice John Roberts put it best at his confirmation hearing, when he described the role of a judge. Chief Justice Roberts said, 'Judges and Justices are servants of the law, not the other way around. Judges are like umpires. Umpires don't make the rules, they apply them...and I will remember that it's my job to call balls and strikes and not to pitch or bat.' Now that's the type of Justice that I would appoint to the court. "
The American People: "We are a decent people who have a commitment to the worth and dignity of every person, ingrained in our hearts and etched in our national purpose."
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Hey I liked this. I actually was feeling pretty attacked by some of the stuff out there. I especially liked the Evangelical scholar article you linked to. Even the suposed scholarly documentry PBS did about 10 days ago re-hashed some of the same old debunked myths about the church.
I don't know for sure if Romney is my choice for President but so far so good. I actually hope if there is any dirt to find--someone finds it. Because having a Mormon President who doesn't live his religon would be the worst possible outcome.
The abortion and gay stance has been a question for me. But I guess I was actually in a similar place in the early 90s on both the gay issues and abortion rights. You don't want people beat up or fired for being gay but then "gay marriage" thats a whole new thing. And I don't remember it being an issue back then.
I am pretty sensitive about not judging others by Mormon standards that they don't agree with. So I have been a little wishy washy on abortion too. However, when I really get down to it. It is just wrong for us as a society to throw away human life as though it was an apendex or something. When you really look at the issue there is very little gray.
I'm starting to be convinced. I still don't think he'll win. I've experienced too much haterd to think hate is easily overcome. But why not give it a shot.
Do mormons hate or like asian people? I am asian and I like mitt romney but on his website lists many grous you can join but left out Asian coalitions. Maybe this was an oversight or not?
I think that is a great idea. If I had any kind of affiliation with the campaign, I would try to get an Asian-American coalition started. I am, however, reduced to sending than an email to info@mittromney.com. So, we'll see if anyone appropriate in the campaign gets the email. And to answer your question, I think Romney respects all people regardless of national origin or ethnicity as children of the same God.
I was surprised when visiting the Mitt Romeny web site that his web site seeking volunteers did not have a special category for Asian Americans like African Americans, Hispanics. The same oversight occurs even in corporate America for example Pepsico has special advisory groups for African Americans and Hispanics but overlooks Asians. Pepsico's reply is that Asians make up only a small portion of their market and thus do not warrant an advisory group . Certainly someone doesn't see the global economy not only in Asia but Asian Americans here in the US.
The piece is generally fair. But there are two troubling aspects that I can summarize in two questions:
To Nancy: Can you point me to a religious view that Mormons hold that would directly call into question Mitt's fitness for office?
To Jacob Weisberg (whom Nancy quotes prominently): Should the "Weisberg Principle of Nutiness" (my phrase) apply just to people running for President? How about Senate Majority Leader? Congressman? Councilman? Dog Catcher? At what point does someone's faith hit the Weisberg religious ceiling?
OK... now that I have that out of the way. Let's discuss the article in detail:
The Mormon question has settled in right next to the issue of whether a twice-divorced man has credibility discussing family values or whether changing one's mind on an issue like abortion is a sign of moral growth or cynical retreat. Unlike in 1960, today the argument is less about the role of religion in public life than in private. It is about what our faith says about our judgment and how our traditions shape our instincts--and about what we have the right to ask those who run for the highest office in the land.
This is a fair assessment of the general problem before us. I should point out - there's nothing new here - there were similar questions in 2000 and 2004. What's changed? A Mormon has entered the race.
[Referring to Romney's explanation of a "person of faith"] But he can hardly suggest to the devout voters of the G.O.P. base that religious views don't matter, don't warrant discussion or don't affect one's conduct in office. These are voters inclined to think the wall of church-state separation is too high; it is certainly not one any candidate can hide behind. So his challenge is to draw the lines about what's relevant and what's not.
Of course religious views matter and I love discussing them. Here's where I raise my first question from above: Can someone point me to one religious view that Mormons hold that directly disqualifies someone from a political office?
But when it comes to religiously conservative voters, the more people learn, the greater Romney's problem may become. And he will have to decide whether he's willing to provide the kind of public theology lesson that no other candidate has been asked to deliver.
I've found quite the opposite. Everyone I speak to who gets to know Romney is quite taken with him. Take this instance cited in today's New York Times (h/t HH)
Even among evangelicals who say they are at least willing to consider Mr. Romney, support in many cases appears to be shaky. Larry Gordon, senior pastor of Cornerstone World Outreach in Sioux City, said his initial instinct was to rule out Mr. Romney because of his faith. But after his son, who is also a pastor at the church, came away impressed by Mr. Romney after an event, he began to examine him more closely.
Back to Nancy. One error (minor or not):
A separate ceremony was held for "gentiles," as non- Mormons are called.
We don't call them "gentiles". Michael Medved makes a joke about that sometimes. But we refer to non-mormons internally as non-Mormons. I've never heard anyone refer to non-Mormons as gentiles. This is a quibble... but any Mormon proofing the article could have told her that - which indicates that probably no Mormon did review this. Not a big deal... moving on...
"Someone who believes, seriously believes, in a modern hoax is someone we should think hard about," Weisberg argues, "whether they have the skepticism and intellectual seriousness to take on this job."
Here's where our second question comes up: should the "Weisberg Principle of Nuttiness" apply only to people running for President? How about Speaker of the House? How about Congressman? Councilman? Dog catcher? What is the level of importance in public life where the religious ceiling is hit? The other aspect has already been asked... what level of nuttiness is needed? What do you qualify as nutty?
Justin, that's funny that you noticed the "gentile" phrasing. That too stuck out at me. I have been a member all my life, and I don't remember once having someone get up in church and say, "My next door neighbor, a gentile, drinks coffee" or whatever. It is always "non-member" or "non-Mormon."
I thought it was fairly good, but some parts did make me wonder a bit. Oh well, it's MSM--anything even slightly good ought to be celebrated. ;)
As you noted, it's a very minor point: Do some Mormon's refer to those not of their faith as "gentiles"? Yes. I've heard it several times. However, the term would never be used to refer to someone, like Medved, who is a Jew. The term is used in the Book of Mormon to refer to any who are not part of the House of Israel. Jews are of the House of Israel by birth and so are those who are adopted into the House through baptism.
On May 15th... the Romney campaign is encouraging people to take action and sign up 24,000 new supporters. To help jump start this effort they have invited fans across the country to host "Sign-up America" parties on the night of the South Carolina debates (May 15th.)
Ok, I hope we can put this behind us and move on. I don't think complaining any more about Sharpton will accomplish anything. Complaining puts a bad taste in my mouth whether it comes from Sharpton or from Romney supporters. So please, no more Al Sharpton posts.
I think it is obvious that Chris Matthews is off the mark in suggesting that Romney is criticizing Sharpton for political gain. Give me a break. Nice try Matthews but that is a retarded idea.
Well, there you have it! No matter how you look at it in context or out Sharpton went after the Mormon church and used religion to attempt to discount Romney. Nice try but no cigar!
After getting in hot water for his comments on "true" believers defeating the "one Mormon" in the race, Sharpton gets out his shovel and keeps digging. The logic runs thus:
1) Mormonism didn't allow blacks the priesthood before 1978 2) Mormonism is therefore racist 3) Romney was a Mormon before 1978 (1965 or whatever) 4) Romney is not a believer in God
I am not a member of the LDS church. The bigotry Mitt has endured ENRAGES ME especially that from the right as I expected better of them. But Al Sharpton is doing Mitt a huge favor here. The RIGHT is going to rally to Romney's defense against Sharpton's bigoted and ignorant rantings.
The debate now is not about Mitt being a Mormon but about the right of all American citizens to worship as they wish.
This will be a defining moment for the Romney campaign. If it can handle Sharpton's barbs really well, then it can survive anything and yes it will thrive.
I will be a curious observer how this will be done.
P.S. Isn't Katie Adams, a Mormon, on the Rutgers Woman Basketball Team. I would be curious of her thoughts on the matter?
You really need to let this issue die. I am as big a Romney fan as they come, but continuing to push this issue is not going to win allies. Just about everyone outside of Sharpton sees the folly of his remarks. Dwelling on it incessantly is unnecessary and overplayed. Let's not waste more bandwidth on this chump and get back to the real issues of the campaign. Unfortunate as it is, continuing to drag this out just opens the door, as Sharpton points out, to focus on obscure aspects of Mormon history that simply will NOT play well with most voters if given continual airtime. It removes the focus from Mitt's message and places squarely where the MSM wants it. Stop giving your opponent a podium. It isn't helping ANYONE anyone, anymore - particularly GMR.
Am I the only one who sees this episode as potentially harmful to Romney? The beginning of the whole affair was a comment by Sharpton's debate opponent regarding the status of blacks in the LDS church in decades past. Sharpton made his inappropriate comment in partial response. That was where the issue should have been left to die. Instead, the Romney camp implies that Sharpton is a "bigot" with the result that Sharpton has now turned the bigotry accusation back on Romney and the LDS church and gone on record (with CNN) demanding that Romney repudiate the church's former position on blacks.
I fail to see how this does anything but put Romney on the defensive and call attention to an issue that would better be left out of the headlines.
Already, in comments from all corners, I see various glaring errors in the way the LDS church's relationship to blacks is being portrayed. Stuff like this definitely hurts Romney more than helps. I have to wonder what the Romney camp expected to have happen once they opened this Pandora's box. I suppose they were thinking that any publicity is good publicity. I would respectfully disagree.
Sharpton's comment highlights a fundamental truth. Mormons and Evangelical and Pentecostals don't believe in the same God. Mormons believe that a man ascended to godhood, I say they believe in 'that guy, god.' Evangelical and Pentecostal Christians believe in God who always existed, is eternal, and manifested as a man in Jesus Christ. It's an important distinction. I live in a 99% mormon community and have heard all sides of the doctrine. The mormon community should not try to blur doctrinal lines.
You see, before 1978, black males were not allowed to hold the priesthood (for a deeper discussion see here). So Mormons are bigots and don't deserve to run for President.
I can't cite the quote yet (I'll look for the transcript somewhere shortly here) but essentially Al's logic is thus:
1) The Mormon church didn't allow blacks to hold the Priesthood until 1978 2) The Mormon church was therefore racist and bigoted 3) If you belonged to the Mormon church before 1978 that made you a racist and a bigot 4) Therefore he can decry any Mormon running for public office and wave them off because "true" believers in God will defeat them.
Did I get that right? Can I take that shovel from you Reverend?
You will seriously not believe what you hear when the YouTube is posted.
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